Monday, August 24, 2009

This is less than helpful. Screen capture taken from the Logos Bible Software version of Louw-Nida. This is the Greek index, Vol 2 p 159.

MEN-LN-Vol2

No, I don’t have anything better. I can still complain, though.

I will say that they at least acknowledge the μεν .. (other particle/conjunction) correlation in a way that is visible and obvious (which shouldn’t surprise anyone who has read much from either Louw or Nida or has any knowledge of the South African textlinguistics school/approach). And at least the referenced article focuses on the contrast that is marked in these situations.

But μεν .. αλλα, μεν .. δε, and μεν .. πλην are not identical in function and it is virtually impossible to narrow any of them down to a suitable gloss, let alone the always-horrible “on the one hand/on the other hand”. If you ever use that, you should think twice about it, and then change it anyway.

It’s less about translation into English (or any other language) and more about how the discourse/information is structured in Greek. This is one of the more prominent problems with trying to stick English glosses on everything to decode it and then “smooth it over” into a translation (hey, I’ll admit I do that frequently; it’s still wrong). I’m not saying that Louw and Nida are doing that, I am saying that doing that is one very easy (and very wrong) way to utilize the information they provide in their lexicon.

Check Denniston’s Particles, but before you do that do yourself a favor and check out the sample from Steve Runge’s forthcoming Discourse Grammar on his web site. (Look for the Sample PDF on his publications page) The section on conjunctions is your friend.

Post Author: rico
Monday, August 24, 2009 7:48:11 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00) 

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Another snippet from his short grammar:

As a rule German editors punctuate too freely according to German ideas rather than those of the Greeks.

Robertson, A. T. (2009). A Short Grammar of the Greek New Testament, for Students Familiar with the Elements of Greek (16). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Remember, Robertson wrote that in the 1908 (100 years ago!). This was interesting to me because of a note I made on a post on punctuation/accent almost two years ago now:

Pure speculation and likely irrelevant and misguided, but I'm wondering how the punctuation in NA27 compares with how one would punctuate a somewhat literal German translation — and how punctuation in UBS4 compares with how one would punctuate a somewhat literal English translation.

Post Author: rico
Monday, August 24, 2009 6:15:17 AM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00) 

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 Saturday, August 22, 2009

His Short Grammar,* Part II, Chapter III is on orthography. Section 2 of that chapter is on accent.

He starts the section: “This is a thorny subject.”

Hoo-boy.


* A Short Grammar of the Greek New Testament, p. 13. I got my copy in Logos Bible Software's A.T. Robertson Collection (15 Vols.)

Post Author: rico
Saturday, August 22, 2009 12:08:28 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00) 

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 Wednesday, August 19, 2009

The Greek conjunction και is one of those words that seems easy to understand (it means “and”, right?) and then again not so easy (“Why is there a και here?”). From my reading and study,* και is essentially additive, and one forgets this at his peril when evaluating και in context.

Here’s a simple example from Didache 7.4 to reinforce the basic idea.

πρὸ δὲ τοῦ βαπτίσματος προνηστευσάτω ὁ βαπτίζων καὶ ὁ βαπτιζόμενος καὶ εἴ τινες ἄλλοι δύνανται· κελεύεις δὲ νηστεῦσαι τὸν βαπτιζόμενον πρὸ μιᾶς ἢ δύο.

I’ll leave other aspects of the information structure to Steve Runge (though there is some cool stuff, notably the prepositional phrase before the primary verb forming a temporal frame and also the function of δε linking to previous the previous clause indicating development). Here’s the same formatted a bit differently with translation below:

   πρὸ δὲ τοῦ βαπτίσματος
   And before the baptism
προνηστευσάτω
he should fast beforehand
   ὁ βαπτίζων
   the one baptizing 
   καὶ ὁ βαπτιζόμενος
   and the one being baptized
   καὶ εἴ τινες ἄλλοι δύνανται·
   and any others who are able.

κελεύεις δὲ νηστεῦσαι τὸν βαπτιζόμενον
Call upon the one being baptized to fast
   πρὸ μιᾶς ἢ δύο.
   beforehand one or two days.

There is some interesting text-critical and form-critical stuff going on here, but my interest isn’t (immediately) there. Read Niederwimmer for those details. Regarding και, my interest is in simply seeing how a group is formed using και to add one group element to the existing, known group. While I translated “and” above, you could also do something like “along with” or even “and also”.** The important bit about καιʼs function here is that after the initial group element is introduced (“the one baptizing”), και is used to build that up.

If we just have και associated with the gloss “and” in our minds, we may pass the test and translate the above correctly. But has it been understood? Understanding what function words like και (and δε, and my favorite, αλλα) are up to allows us to better approach the Greek text as Greek instead of as a jumbled set of wooden, English, yoda-speak glosses that need to be decoded and smoothed over in order to be understood.


* Most helpful have been portions of Steve Runge's Discourse Grammar, Heckert's Discourse Function of Conjoiners in the Pastoral Epistles (amazon.com), and Denniston's Particles (amazon.com).

** Ehrman really scrambles the word order to work a “both … and” into it: “But both the one baptizing and the one being baptized should fast before the baptism, along with some others if they can.”

Post Author: rico
Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:53:25 AM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00) 

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 Wednesday, August 12, 2009

ATRShortGrammarFrom the introduction to his “Short Grammar”:

The genius of the Greek language itself must constantly be sought. It is easy to explain a Greek idiom by the English or the German. This is the vice of many grammars. The Greek must be allowed to be itself and have its own point of view. Good Greek may be very poor English and vice versa. It is imperative for a just and sympathetic appreciation of Greek to look at the language from the Greek standpoint. The consistent application of this principle will prevent one from explaining one preposition as used “instead” of another, one tense “for” another, etc.

Robertson, A. T. (2009). A Short Grammar of the Greek New Testament, for Students Familiar with the Elements of Greek (4). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

I just downloaded and installed the “A.T. Robertson Collection (15 volumes)” recently released by Logos Bible Software (disclosure: I work for Logos); the short grammar is one of those titles. Looking forward to checking out the structure and reading through some portions.

Post Author: rico
Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:25:46 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00) 

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 Monday, August 10, 2009

HonestScrap Mike Aubrey at ΕΝ ΕΦΕΣΩ tagged me in the “Honest Scrap” meme.

Don’t really know where it started, but I’ll play along. The rules apparently involve me telling you “10 HONEST things about myself and then nominate 7 other blogs that I think deserve to receive the Honest Scrap Award”.

I won’t nominate anyone else; if you want to do it and haven’t been tagged, well … consider yourself tagged.

These are in no specific precedence or order.

  1. I love my sweet wife Amy like crazy, and am blessed beyond belief that she loves me like crazy too.
  2. Our little girl Ella (now 2 years old!) is the cutest thing. Ever. And yes, I’m being honest here.
  3. I graduated high school when I was 17. Didn’t skip a grade or anything, just had an early birthday so I started early.
  4. While in college, I had the most awesome summer job for two summers doing — get this — counting power poles. OK, it was a little more than that, it involved isolating where telephone and cable companies tacked their lines on power poles so the power company could charge them rent; and to estimate age, height and condition of poles so they knew when to replace them. But it was a well-paying, slack, four 10-hour days per week summer job that ruled!
  5. My undergrad degree is in Economics. I’d considered going to grad school, but then scored a job at Logos, where I am still employed today.
  6. Speaking of which, in the past week I celebrated my Logos anniversary; I’ve worked there 16 years and am now into my 17th. Woo hoo!
  7. I applied and was accepted to Regent College in Vancouver back in 1994 to pursue a Masters degree (was looking at an M.Div) but never went because I couldn’t round up the cash. God had other plans for me.
  8. I’m not that interested in graduate school any more; being surrounded by and working with guys like Mike Heiser, Steve Runge, Sean Boisen, Eli Evans (also here) and Vincent Setterholm (not to mention Bob Pritchett) is so challenging and so much fun I can’t imagine anything else coming close to giving me a better education.
  9. I built my own 18-foot cedar strip kayak from scratch. More info and pictures are available.
  10. The only ‘current’ TV show I am aware of is Monk, and that is largely because some people recommended it to me & Amy, there are episodes online (try Fancast), and the Whatcom County Library system has most of the older seasons available on DVD. Otherwise, we don’t really watch TV. Too much junk that shouldn’t fill anyone’s brain, let alone mine. Monk is an exception. I mean, c’mon, it’s basically Sherlock Holmes, and it’s hilarious to boot.

That’s it.

Post Author: rico
Monday, August 10, 2009 8:04:29 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00) 

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 Saturday, August 08, 2009

Here’s the Greek:

5 οὐκ ἔσται ὁ λόγος σου ψευδής, οὐ κενός, ἀλλὰ μεμεστωμένος πράξει.

Here’s my translation [at present]:

5 Your speech should not be false or empty, but filled with action.

The key here for me, given the presence of αλλα, is the contrast between κενός and μεμεστωμένος, which is why I translate the portion following αλλα as “filled with action”. In my view, αλλα marks contrast and also indicates the portion following the αλλα corrects or replaces the portion before it. The above is an instance of correction, what you say should be backed up by what you do.

The basic idea of μεστοω [according to BDAG, anyway], is that the speech/word is “made full” by one’s action. This is where the idea of completed/fulfilled/confirmed comes from. It’s as if one’s actions verify that his words/speech is worthy of being listened to. The idea is almost as if one’s actions verify that one’s speech it true.

Given the innate contrast, it seems better (at least to me) to play off of that contrast by using “filled” to translate μεμεστωμένος and using “with action” to translate πράξει.

Here’s how others I know of translate the verse:

Thy speech shall not be false nor vain, but completed in action. (Lake)

Thy word shall not be false or empty, but fulfilled by action. (Lightfoot)

Your word must not be false or meaningless, but confirmed by action. (Holmes)

Your word will not be false or empty, but will be fulfilled in action. (Varner, who follows the Greek text of Rordorf & Tuilier’s 1978 edition, which was republished in 1998 as part of Sources Christiennes)

Your word shall not be false or empty [but shall be fulfilled by deed]. (Niederwimmer, he sees the brackets as a later addition)

Your word must not be empty or false. (Ehrman, who apparently takes the reading of the Apostolic Confessions over Heirosolymitaunus [as does Niederwimmer, apparently]; note his Greek text is a modified version of Bihlmeyer)

These guys all have (or had while alive) more Greek in the tip of their left pinkie toe than I’ve got in the entirety of my being, but given contrast marked by αλλα and the notion of correction, I still think I like “filled with” better; though “fulfilled by” is a pretty close second (that I could actually be convinced of).

Post Author: rico
Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:45:33 PM (Pacific Standard Time, UTC-08:00) 

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